Lately I’ve been thinking a lot about the effect other people have on our lives. Often when I’m knee deep in reflection, I receive questions from others about the same thing! I received two questions recently which I would really like to take the time to answer. I could really relate to both questions and think many of my readers will be able to as well. In this post I’ll answer the first question and the second in another post later this week!
Dear FT, I’m hoping you can help me. I’m really having a hard time with my friends recently, they all have much more money than I do, better paid jobs, many own their own homes or have had a lot of help from family, a down-payment or money left to them in a will. They always complain about how skint they are, how hard done by they have it and yet I not only earn less than them but am single. Most of them seem to have family incomes of £40,000 to £65,000 a year [for US readers that is around $75,000-$110,000) but I'm living on £15,000 [$28,000] and yet they go on and on about how hard they have it. It is making me very distressed when I get together with them and very lonely.
Answer: Boy can I relate. The biggest thing I’ve learned is that people who aren’t truly content will ALWAYS feel poor, they will always want more and it clouds their ability to show compassion and empathy. It is incredibly insensitive of them, but sadly, until people are willing to change and see how blessed they are, then they just can’t really hear or see a situation for what it is. The reality is you can’t change them, you can encourage them if they are willing, share how you feel or perhaps you could suggest you volunteer as friends, at a homeless shelter or food bank even just once. Perspective can really build character. You could do something for charity like a sponsored run or swim and talk to them about why you’ve done it, how fortunate we all are. You could share about your own finances, how difficult you find these conversations, how much less you have etc but remember even that won’t necessarily change them. Some people do want to rant about how hard done by they are and are not willing to admit the blessings they have!
My dad died when I was very young and my mum was left with a child, a hefty mortgage and life insurance which didn’t pay out. She worked very hard as a nurse to feed, cloth and educate me and went without a new winter coat for 15 years. In her department most of the nurses were married to Doctors, their income was about 5x my mums and they would always complain about money, they would allow her to pay for coffee on their break yet never offer it back or treat her in return. I, to this day don’t know how my mum coped with it, especially as she was made a widow. Life is a lot harder for some than others and there isn’t much about it that feels fair at times.
I have also had this situation myself, a friend of mine who is in her mid 40′s, married, with no children and a decent bungalow they own about 75% of [worth £200,000, mortgage of £50,000]. They have a combined income which is more than double, probably almost triple my income and a small holiday home in France they go to each year which has no mortgage. This friend constantly complains about money, tells me how poor she is, has told me they don’t give a penny to charity because of their “poverty” and yet has also told me that they invest her whole paycheck £1500 ($2900) a month! It is very very difficult to be around her because she refers to me as “miss moneybags” basically because she has seen be buy Big Issue magazine, knows I give money to charity and don’t complain about my income.
You are not alone, always remember that. There are thousands of people with your income, millions of people with less and billions living in situations where they don’t know where their next meal will come from. Try to talk to your friends, you never know when someone might be encouraged into little changes, but also remember that someone can have a six figure income and never have a cent because they spend it all! I always feel better about my income and my choices when I can see that I’m saving by focusing on cutting my expenses, making donations to charities and saving for a rainy day! Another way to feel better about your situation is to play the thankful game, just list everything you are thankful for whenever you feel bad/low/poor! Might I suggest you keep a notebook by your bed and a list on your fridge? Reminders of our blessings are sooo important!
Two final ideas: one is to do some reading, reading that will teach you about saving and also books which will really give you perspective! The books I always recommend are:
Finances:
Why Love Is Not Enough: A Smart Woman’s Guide To Money
Perspective and Growth:
Both of these books changed my life in such a way that there is no going back! Maybe once you read them you could lend them to your friends?
The final idea is to look for some new friends! lol I don’t mean not to continue with your friendships, but perhaps also look for people who reflect your values. Can you look at volunteering clubs or organizations which aim to make a difference, volunteer for a food bank, women’s shelter or hospice? Perhaps try a ramblers association (good free fun!) or a social club or even a faith based group! There are thousands of truly good people out there, who give back, help others and see the blessings they have!
I hope this helps!
Now I open up the comments to all you, do you have any good advice to share? Have you ever found yourself in this situation, how have you coped?
I think the truth is that a lot of people don’t take the time to consider how what they are saying could affect other people. They just complain without thinking. I have noticed this in an area that is sensitive for me: weight. So many times I have had to endure thinner women complain about their weight, how big their thighs are, that they can’t seem to lose the 5 pounds they want, etc. This has been very difficult for me as someone who is overweight, has previously had an eating disorder, and still struggles with food issues. Well, other people may not know about my internal problems but my size is there for everyone to see, and I really wish they would be more sensitive. I have never had the guts to speak up and say how that makes me feel, but maybe I should.
In either case (money or weight), I don’t think it is necessarily maliciously meant. It is just a matter of failing to think. That’s why I wonder if it would work to be more honest…. for me to speak up about my food/weight issues, for this reader to speak up about her money issues… Rather than just hiding resentment inside, would it work to just explain how something makes you feel?
Great points Canadian! I do hope this person shares!
Thank you so much for this post. It’s offered me a further insight to your ethos, which as you know, I really admire.
I am finding that I am more generous to charities when I have less money. Is that weird? I used to spend £2000 a month (*shock horror*) and felt that I didn’t have a penny that I could spare. Now I live on £500 a month, I enjoy giving around 10% of that to charity or friends in need. I don’t understand how this works!
Maybe we value things/money more when we have less of them…
Well done you! That’s a huge change!!
I think Canadian is right. . . people don’t think about how their comments are hurting others. And I think speaking up would help. I think most people would say “oh, sorry, I didn’t realize”. It takes a really callous person not to care.
At the same time, I think some people don’t speak up because they don’t want to be pitied or labeled. Very few of my family members know of some of the issues I deal with because once you have a problem, you are forever broken in their eyes.
Still, if a person says they are struggling, many times I think they must really feel they are struggling.
Very true. Sadly, in my case both I and another friend have told this friend and nothing changed. It’s so important to hope that sharing our feelings helps but also to accept, we can’t make people change!
Great points!
FT,
I love reading your site, and am always overwhelmed by your generosity which shows itself in so many ways.
Even this post, I think you are being generous. So many people don’t get it, and simply can’t get it. My brother and his wife don’t have any money as one or the other has been off work for a long period over the passed couple of years. And yet, they always have the latest mobile phones, drive nice cars, etc .. and then complain that they don’t have enough money for food, rent and bills.
I don’t live frugally, although I am trying to get my head around how to do it, but we do give regularly to a couple of charities. My mobile phone is the one I could have for free with the plan that allows me to speak with my husband for no charge when he is away (which is frequently), and the other night I entertained my 3yo daughter for 20 minutes by watching a cricket in our garden and she loved it.
Most people cannot see that we don’t need the latest and greatest. It’s not their fault, it’s forced in their face constantly, and it can be hard to see passed that.
I think in a lot of cases children change that. For some lucky people it takes less than that. When you realize all you need is a roof over your head, food in your belly, and the companionship with others you are truly rich, but just like with saving, it takes a lot to get there.
Thank you for your kind comments about the blog.
I think you are very right, a lot of people simply don’t want to change, a lot of people really do want more. I always try to see the best in people, but I also have learned (like you!) I have to be realistic, you can show friends about suffering or need, it doesn’t mean they’ll want to help.
I have a friend who is quite well off, mortgage paid, lump sum in the bank but is very unhappy, always moaning etc., and another who has barely 2 pennies to rub together but is happy, helps out with her time and makes you feel better just being in her comapny. I know who I would rather be like!
AMEN!
is it possible that the ‘wealthier’ friends are making comments about not having money as a way to empathize? they truly don’t realize what they are complaining about is hurting anyone’s feelings but are just trying to say things about having no money to sympathize with their not-as-wealthy friend?
and these ‘wealthier’ friends may truly not have any money if they are spending it all. maybe they haven’t spent it on the right things, but just getting by when the bills come in is stressful for anyone.
it is also possible that the image the ‘wealthy’ friends portray is that they have everything and everything is perfect? when in reality they are faced with a mortgage payment that is 2x’s more than they would have to pay if they were just renting the same house, they can’t afford to sell their house because it has depreciated with the economy (maybe just in the u.s?), or their inheritance is in a protected account that is not accessible at this time.
there are many reasons why somebody feels ‘poor’ and maybe the solution is to just change the subject when the complainer brings it up.
Great tips!
I have a friend who is very comfortable financially who is always telling me how poor she is! I know that she says it without much thought, though, as she often appologises after making such a comment and tells me that it is more her financial management than her income!
I think that this is possibly the case for quite a few people. If they invest x amount, spend y amount, then they feel they don’t have much money when they see what is left at the end of the month. They may see something like SkyTV as a necessity whilst their friend sees it as a luxury. As their friend doesn’t pay for it and so has more disposable income and so appears richer.
Great points Lisa! I think a lot of people think they are “poor”!
What a great post!! I’m not quite as delicate as some others when it comes to this. lol!! I think we all know people who have it “Oh so rough”, and always see the glass as “half empty”. It drives me nuts and I seriously try not to have friends like that, ’cause I can’t deal with it, nor have the desire to. We’re a family of 6 and live off of what a lot of single people make in a year. We budget well, don’t live above our means, and appreciate what we have. I know SOO many have SOO much less than we do, i’d be ashamed to complain about my life when I see what’s going on in this world!
http://www.halfdozendaily.wordpress.com
Can I admit it drives me nuts too
I too feel ashamed to complain, which personally I find healthy as it stops me in my tracks!
Well done you!
I think you are very generous and I agree that you just can’t make people change.
To be honest, I think most people are people like this, unwilling to admit what they have, unable to see that they are trying to fool people by pretending they have it as hard as others. I have friends who say they have nothing yet they own 5 rental properties and have 3 weeks time-share in the Bahamas. Selling those 5 rentals alone would make them quite wealthy! Yet, they say they have nothing. I think people should go and stay in Africa for a month!!
Off to check out those books!!
Hope you enjoy the books! Sadly I know a lot of people who are just the same. I think perspective makes all the difference!
I can totally relate to what Canadian said about weight. I mean, I don’t eat very healthy and I don’t exercise like I should, so my weight is as much about my lifestyle as some medical concerns, so I try not to take it too personally, since I know I could work on my weight. But just the same, when someone significantly thinner than me says something about how fat they are, I just want to (and to friends have actually) say”so what are you saying about me?” The friends usually say something like you aren’t fat, etc. I really think people can have such blinders sometimes that they think they are the only ones in a tough position. If they were to look around, they would see how much they have. My husband can be like this, sadly. Sure, we aren’t in a great financial position, but I try to make him open his eyes to see how good we have it compared to so many.
I think you hit it right on when you said no matter how much some people have, if they are not content, they will always feel poor.
Sadly, me too. It can be very difficult and make one feel well as though people aren’t being sensitive or caring.
A very interesting post. I recommend the book All Your Worth by Elizabeth Warren for learning how to manage your money. Her book The Two-Income Trap is interesting too, but probably only or mostly to Americans (US) because it is a lot about how some changes in our laws helped a lot of people to get in trouble they never would/could have in my generation. I’m going to look for the other books you mention.
Brilliant recommendations, thanks thicket!
I think that getting perspective is the key here; there will always be someone better off and someone worse off than you. That doesn’t mean that you don’t have the right to sometimes feel sorry for yourself and have a little moan if you need to.
I don’t mind my better off friends/relatives spending a little time talking about their financial concerns because even though I know I wouldn’t be stressed in their financial situation it doesn’t mean that they aren’t.
If they are constantly complaining and moaning without actively seeking change that is a different matter though.
To give a non-financial example: I have a chronic medical condition, for the most part it is well managed with medication, sometimes it can flare up however and leave me unwell for a period. When this happens I do sometimes feel quite sorry for myself and will complain to my mum. My mother is a hospice nurse, so she will listen to my complaints for 5 minutes or so and then remind how good I have it. It doesn’t diminish my concerns to remember others are worse off and I have no trouble reminding people like those in the example that they don’t have it that bad- sometimes they hear it and sometimes they don’t.
Finally, I’m not sure how bad the questioner really feels with her friends but I do truly believe that sometimes it is better to end a friendship than continue it if it causes too much stress and there is no opportunity for repairing the situation.
So true re perspective! I agree re friends, I will be kind and loving towards anyone, but I really and truly look very careful at who my friends are!
I think this thread is so relevant these days, it’s something i experience a lot with friends that most certainly have a higher and more disposable income than we could dream of and jut don’t seem to grasp why we can’t just drop everything and visit them for long weekends 200 miles away, very trying.
I agree though, have faith in yourself, how hard you are working your money and getting the maximum out of it rather than frittering it away on consumables, because thats where a lot of this lies I believe, in a world where we are bombarded with messages about consumerism and people feel overwhelmed with wanting things (not need, want) that they can’t afford, no matter how much money you have there is always someone with more who has a bigger house/better clothes/more holidays etc etc that people become envious off and covet, and so the cycle continues. Breaking free of consumerism, doing a lot more valued and cherished things with your money like treating friends, helping charities and being thrifty certainly leaves a better taste in your mouth and a lasting satisfaction than getting the latest gadget or splurging it all on consumerism.
I think making friends with like minded people certainly helps, those that appreciate homemade/thrifty goods, ethical gifts and freebies are always so much more fun to share time with than those who are obsessed with what they don’t have. Seek out friends on blogs and forums like this, Moneysavingexpert.com etc and find solace and comfort among like minded people. x
Brilliant points Betty Thrift!
I think a lot of people feel lack in their lives no matter how much they acquire in terms of money, goods and experiences, and that is what is talking when people start complaining about how “little” they have. Really, I think people only change when they somehow realise they are far more than what they do or have, and nothing they ever acquire will bring them lasting peace or happiness.
I also recommend Hospital by the River by Catherine Hamlin. Having had difficult births with both my children, I read it and realised that if I had been born an Ethiopian I could easily have shared in the fate of these women – social ostracism due to a medical condition beyond their control. The Hamlin Fistula hospital is now “my” charity.
Oooh another Hamlin supporter!!!!
I’ve had this so many times. I hate it when people say “I’ve got no money” when actually what they mean is “I’ve got no money to spend on fun things”.
It’s so annoying because actually there are people who literally have no money. Who cannot afford to pay rent or buy food and pay their bills.
I had to walk away from a friend once who would drag me into town and look in Selfridges and say “I would really like this £180 top but I really don’t have any money” and would then whip out a credit card and pay for it. At the time I was eating pasta with no sauce on it and sleeping on a friend’s floor because I couldn’t afford to rent somewhere and couldn’t even dream of getting a credit card.
But overall, I think I was the happier person in myself. I didn’t need the £180 top to be a nice human being. She had the £180 top and still wasn’t a nice human being!
Great points! I’m really sorry you had that experience. Happiness certainly isn’t related to money and neither is being a good person!
I would just like to add that I think your idea of finding some other friends is a good one. I think part of the reason I never feel sensitive about being poor is that I associate with people of all income levels. I know some couples where one spouse makes more than my husband and I make together. And I know others who earned less at the end of their careers than I do right now at half their age. Plus I live in a working class neighbourhood. So when a wealthy friend or acquaintance moans about money I am able to keep it in perspective and be amused more than anything else.
Also, I know that although some people have incomes far above mine, they are also in a more precarious financial situation. I have a lot of savings and I know how to live on relatively little (not ashamed to shop at thrift stores, etc.), whereas many supposedly wealthy people are actually living pretty much paycheque to paycheque. (But I have to guard against being self-righteous and smug about this!)
Canadian that is so true, my group of friends is the exact same, from every walk of life, income level, education etc.
This is somewhat related to the topic at hand. My son is 4. There have been some behaviour issues at his day-care recently among the children. There has been some bullying and some excluding. The children are at an age where they are soon to be going to elementary school and they are figuring out what is okay and what is not. What they can/cannot get away with. They identify strongly with feelings at this age as well. Feelings become their currency. “I don’t like you so you can’t come to my birthday party!”
It turns out that MY son is the ‘ring leader’. He is a very nice boy and is a born leader. The problem with this is that he can lead the whole class to have a great day or a very bad day. The kids listen to him. He’s discovering this and seeing what his ‘power’ can get him.
We (the daycare and us) are trying hard to correct this before it becomes a problem. My son is not the only child involved.
It has been both interesting and stressful trying to figure out how to correct this and not blaming myself for everything.
We have been doing a lot of talking about feelings and how we treat each other. I bought him a book on “The Golden Rule” about treating others the way we would like to be treated. It has seemed to help. This week the kids have had a very good week and my son even stopped one child and said “We are all friends here.” (YEAH!!)
I am trying hard to instill in him that friendship is the greatest gift. I tell him that “being truly rich is not about the money you have but about the friendships you have.”
Melanie that is such a wonderful thing you are teaching your son! I am sure it will stay with him his whole life!
Is there an opportunity to covert someone elses blessings, I wonder, when we decide they’re lucky enough not to complain?
I’ve been on the poor side and the “lucky” side, for want of a better word, Truth be told, I have always struggled though. Nothing was ever given to me easily. Therefore, nothing is easily taken away, without a struggle too.
I think when we concentrate solely on someone else’s possessions, we miss the person and what is really going on under the surface.
You could take away their possessions and they’d still struggle. What would God have us do for them, but…”love one another as I have loved you.”
So my advice would be – let go of their possessions and love the person.
I made some tough decisions a few years ago to sever some friendships which were bringing me down. I feel I had no choice.
I started down a different pathway to them and they did not support me. They were derisory, rude and distinctly sniffy.
I started feeling tired and spending time with them was no fun.
I stopped ringing them, declined invitations out and simply faded out of their lives.
I kept just two friendships with people who understood and never once felt threatened by my choices.
I used to think these complainers were my cross to bear. Then I realised I had enough crosses of my own to bear as I progressed along my new pathway and they were trying to get me to carry THEIRS to slow me down and keep me with them.